Pyros Akali · Jul 09, 2011, 11:18 PM // 23:18

Ok I'm kind of a newb, picked up the game about 2 weeks ago, but I'm wondering if there's any point in using a 20/20staff over 40/40 wand+oh. Since it's for my heroes, I don't really care what the weapons look like, so I'm just going to use the crafting npc in factions for 20/20 wands, but I was wondering if I could instead farm drops for random collectors for 20/20staves, which are much cheaper(being a newb, ~10k is a pretty big deal when I need to gear 7heroes).

I'm asking because I see quite a few people on the trade forum and such that sell/look for staves, when from my newb point of view they only have half the stats. Is it for the energy/health staves usually seem to come with? On what heroes would that be better than 40/40, I'm currently playing a pretty common setup with 2RT(SoS and SoGM), 2mesmers(Panic and Ineptitude) and 2 necros(minion bomber and resto rt) with a smite monk for the last spot. I'm thinking additional energy could benefit some of those(specifically my panic mesmer seems to be oom all the time) but I'm not sure how a flat +energy works out in comparison to another 20/20 from an offhand.

Bladed Tribble · Jul 10, 2011, 12:34 AM // 00:34

I don't know what the experts will say, but here's my opinion...

Heroes that don't/shouldn't have energy problems (aka Necros) should use a 40/40 set so they spam their spells more. Those that do have energy and/or survival problems, give those the staves with energy/health bonuses.

If you're strapped on cash, I'd say go with staves on all heroes, until you can afford the wand/offhand combos. That way you can save some money and still improve the hero a bit.

Also, regarding your comment on a staff having "half the stats", they don't. It's because they have an inherent "Halves skill recharge of spells x%" (max 20). That inherent is something you can't get on a wand or offhand, since those would be attribute specific whereas the staff's affects spells of ANY attribute

tacotown · Jul 10, 2011, 12:43 AM // 00:43

imo, staves are easier to manage since ignoring the attribute requirement just makes the staff do less damage(i don't really count on staff damage). on the other hand, off-hand items give less energy if the req isn't met. i tend to change up my heroes' builds quite often so i prefer to slap a staff in their hands and never worry about required attributes.

if money is an issue, i'd recommend avoiding gearing up your heroes in 40/40 gear. "Forget me not" inscription for off-hand items' half skill recharge of attribute 20% used to be a rather pricey component.

i assume you mean +20% enchant duration wrapping when you say 20/20 staff. those are useful weapon upgrades on a hero that mainly uses enchants. adept staff head(20% half casting time) are less useful imo.

if your heroes are running out of energy, don't try to fix it through equipment, it is their skills that need adjusting. radiant/attunement upgrades are typically inferior to survivor/vitae upgrades.

you may want to read up on weapon upgrades

TL;DR: my heroes use staves because i am lazy

obastable · Jul 10, 2011, 05:08 AM // 05:08

i use bonus weapons and random stuff i kept after filling the weapons monument in the HoM. the majority of my heros (read: 8 out of 10 characters worth) use bonus items exclusively (this includes my main) because 1- i'm lazy and 2- it's free and i'm cheap.

quite frankly, my under-equipped and randomly runed with whatever drops (that i remember to use instead of selling) heros perform well enough to faceroll through the game with minimal input. if you're strapped for cash, go the cheaper route. overall the difference between 40/40 set vs. staves is quite unremarkable. the difference between player A slicing through the game like a hot knife through butter and player B complaining that everything is nigh impossible will be found on the skill bars. good luck, experimenting and creating team builds that establish synergy is one of the most fun parts of this game!

gremlin · Jul 10, 2011, 06:47 AM // 06:47

Similar thoughts to tacotown, its all well and good fine tuning the hero's equipment but if your always changing builds you have to have a load of extra weapon sets and place to store them.

in my case characters get the specialised weapon sets heroes get the Hourglass staff from my bonus items.
I am tempted to give them spear and shield and see if it helps with survival but I don't think its really necessary, bad guys tend to go for me anyway.

I could give warrior and monk hero's specialised sets as they tend to keep to more or less the same build.

akelarumi · Jul 10, 2011, 09:03 AM // 09:03

my hero's basicly get what i can get my hands on. So if a nice green/gold wand drops I look for a nice focus and if it is a wand they get a wand. On my caster characters I do the same and when they really deserve it they are treated with a nice skin.

Pyros Akali · Jul 10, 2011, 09:31 AM // 09:31

Thanks for all the answers, I'm still looking into maximizing this setup since it seems to be pretty good at everything, might pick up mercs and try other builds later but atm since I'm about to start the vanquishes, I'm trying to focus on those. I went through all the crap I had in my bank and found out I can get 20/20 offhands from quite a few collectors, so went and got those then bought the wands from the Vasburg Armory vendor guy, for my 2mesmers. I got a good staff of enchanting on my mm necro and using the reward from prophecies end quests on my RoJ for the 60hp on it, so just need a few more, but yeah should be good enough.

I was just wondering if there was an incentive to staves, but apparently it's just the fact they're less spec limited so you can switch them around between heroes, but stats wise unless you need Of Enchanting, it seems wand+oh is superior.

Now still need to buy a few more (expensive) runes to round up all that and finish EotN, then I have weeks of vanquishes ahead of me, yay ^^.

LuckyGiant · Jul 10, 2011, 09:40 AM // 09:40

Its going to be expensive if you kit your heros with gold items. Theres plenty of perfect collector/crafter stuff around.

I generally use:
20/20 wand (from weapons crafters - approx 5k)
20HSR +30hp offhand. (straw effigys - amulet of mists)

Except minion master who needs the dual cast speed bonus.

Side note 1: you mentioned heros can be out of energy often. A 20/20 set is definately not going to help their cause. I'd suggest changing their build so they can maintain their energy. Radiant insignias are pointless to help with e-management except on a necro.

Side note 2: the rate of trophy drops should've been fixed years ago, one of the farming nerfs changed their drop rates. Should've just given them a merchant value of 1 and make them drop regularly. You now can play the game normally/vanquish or even farm a specific trophy and not have enough in 1 hour of play. Thats absurd because by that time you could've farmed enough money to buy a 20/20 gold item instead.

Quaker · Jul 10, 2011, 03:30 PM // 15:30

When putting together a weapon set, there's always compromises to be made. If, for example, you use a 40/40 wand/focus set, you would be giving up the extra energy, health, etc., you could get with other mods.
Whether or not to use a 40/40 set depends upon a few factors. As has already been said, some heroes need extra energy or health more than they need faster casting times.
For example, a Mesmer hero already has the Fast Casting attribute, so giving it an extra 40% chance of casting faster is not as important as having enough energy. Also, decreasing the recharge time of spells, depends upon the normal recharge time of the equipped skills. (Are they already fast enough?)
Another consideration, especially for heroes, is that a 40/40 set can lead to the Hero running out of energy by casting too many skills too quickly.
On the other hand, something like a Curses Necro can really benefit from a 40/40 set. Energy is not so much of a problem with them, but the long casting and recharge times benefit from a 40/40 set (or a 40/20 staff).

As with human players, what weapon to use and what mods to put on them varies depending upon many factors such as the Skills used, the energy requirements, the casting and recharge time of the Skills, etc. There is no one weapon set that is "best" for all occasions.

Kwith · Jul 10, 2011, 03:35 PM // 15:35

I just give all my caster heroes an hourglass staff from the GWEN pre-release bonus pack. I'm too lazy to go around and find the best 40/40 set for each hero.

you get 15 energy, HSR 20, HCT 10, 45HP while enchanted and an extra 20% damage. That is good enough for me. So far I have had no issues with them.

Jul 09, 2011, 11:18 PM // 23:18	#1
Pyros Akali Ascalonian Squire Join Date: Jul 2011 Profession: D/	Staff vs Wand+OH on heroes Ok I'm kind of a newb, picked up the game about 2 weeks ago, but I'm wondering if there's any point in using a 20/20staff over 40/40 wand+oh. Since it's for my heroes, I don't really care what the weapons look like, so I'm just going to use the crafting npc in factions for 20/20 wands, but I was wondering if I could instead farm drops for random collectors for 20/20staves, which are much cheaper(being a newb, ~10k is a pretty big deal when I need to gear 7heroes). I'm asking because I see quite a few people on the trade forum and such that sell/look for staves, when from my newb point of view they only have half the stats. Is it for the energy/health staves usually seem to come with? On what heroes would that be better than 40/40, I'm currently playing a pretty common setup with 2RT(SoS and SoGM), 2mesmers(Panic and Ineptitude) and 2 necros(minion bomber and resto rt) with a smite monk for the last spot. I'm thinking additional energy could benefit some of those(specifically my panic mesmer seems to be oom all the time) but I'm not sure how a flat +energy works out in comparison to another 20/20 from an offhand.

Jul 10, 2011, 09:40 AM // 09:40	#8
LuckyGiant Krytan Explorer Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: New Zealand Guild: Retired :)	Its going to be expensive if you kit your heros with gold items. Theres plenty of perfect collector/crafter stuff around. I generally use: 20/20 wand (from weapons crafters - approx 5k) 20HSR +30hp offhand. (straw effigys - amulet of mists) Except minion master who needs the dual cast speed bonus. Side note 1: you mentioned heros can be out of energy often. A 20/20 set is definately not going to help their cause. I'd suggest changing their build so they can maintain their energy. Radiant insignias are pointless to help with e-management except on a necro. Side note 2: the rate of trophy drops should've been fixed years ago, one of the farming nerfs changed their drop rates. Should've just given them a merchant value of 1 and make them drop regularly. You now can play the game normally/vanquish or even farm a specific trophy and not have enough in 1 hour of play. Thats absurd because by that time you could've farmed enough money to buy a 20/20 gold item instead. Last edited by LuckyGiant; Jul 10, 2011 at 09:44 AM // 09:44..

Jul 10, 2011, 12:34 AM // 00:34	#2
Bladed Tribble Academy Page Join Date: Jul 2009 Guild: Lunatics Running the Asylum [CRZY] Profession: E/	I don't know what the experts will say, but here's my opinion... Heroes that don't/shouldn't have energy problems (aka Necros) should use a 40/40 set so they spam their spells more. Those that do have energy and/or survival problems, give those the staves with energy/health bonuses. If you're strapped on cash, I'd say go with staves on all heroes, until you can afford the wand/offhand combos. That way you can save some money and still improve the hero a bit. Also, regarding your comment on a staff having "half the stats", they don't. It's because they have an inherent "Halves skill recharge of spells x%" (max 20). That inherent is something you can't get on a wand or offhand, since those would be attribute specific whereas the staff's affects spells of ANY attribute

Jul 10, 2011, 12:43 AM // 00:43	#3
tacotown Ascalonian Squire Join Date: Oct 2005 Guild: SLVR Profession: E/	imo, staves are easier to manage since ignoring the attribute requirement just makes the staff do less damage(i don't really count on staff damage). on the other hand, off-hand items give less energy if the req isn't met. i tend to change up my heroes' builds quite often so i prefer to slap a staff in their hands and never worry about required attributes. if money is an issue, i'd recommend avoiding gearing up your heroes in 40/40 gear. "Forget me not" inscription for off-hand items' half skill recharge of attribute 20% used to be a rather pricey component. i assume you mean +20% enchant duration wrapping when you say 20/20 staff. those are useful weapon upgrades on a hero that mainly uses enchants. adept staff head(20% half casting time) are less useful imo. if your heroes are running out of energy, don't try to fix it through equipment, it is their skills that need adjusting. radiant/attunement upgrades are typically inferior to survivor/vitae upgrades. you may want to read up on weapon upgrades TL;DR: my heroes use staves because i am lazy

Jul 10, 2011, 05:08 AM // 05:08	#4
obastable Krytan Explorer Join Date: Nov 2005 Profession: Mo/	i use bonus weapons and random stuff i kept after filling the weapons monument in the HoM. the majority of my heros (read: 8 out of 10 characters worth) use bonus items exclusively (this includes my main) because 1- i'm lazy and 2- it's free and i'm cheap. quite frankly, my under-equipped and randomly runed with whatever drops (that i remember to use instead of selling) heros perform well enough to faceroll through the game with minimal input. if you're strapped for cash, go the cheaper route. overall the difference between 40/40 set vs. staves is quite unremarkable. the difference between player A slicing through the game like a hot knife through butter and player B complaining that everything is nigh impossible will be found on the skill bars. good luck, experimenting and creating team builds that establish synergy is one of the most fun parts of this game!

Jul 10, 2011, 06:47 AM // 06:47	#5
gremlin Furnace Stoker Join Date: Oct 2006 Guild: GWAR Profession: Me/Mo	Similar thoughts to tacotown, its all well and good fine tuning the hero's equipment but if your always changing builds you have to have a load of extra weapon sets and place to store them. in my case characters get the specialised weapon sets heroes get the Hourglass staff from my bonus items. I am tempted to give them spear and shield and see if it helps with survival but I don't think its really necessary, bad guys tend to go for me anyway. I could give warrior and monk hero's specialised sets as they tend to keep to more or less the same build.

Jul 10, 2011, 09:03 AM // 09:03	#6
akelarumi Wilds Pathfinder Join Date: Nov 2009 Profession: E/	my hero's basicly get what i can get my hands on. So if a nice green/gold wand drops I look for a nice focus and if it is a wand they get a wand. On my caster characters I do the same and when they really deserve it they are treated with a nice skin.

Jul 10, 2011, 09:31 AM // 09:31	#7
Pyros Akali Ascalonian Squire Join Date: Jul 2011 Profession: D/	Thanks for all the answers, I'm still looking into maximizing this setup since it seems to be pretty good at everything, might pick up mercs and try other builds later but atm since I'm about to start the vanquishes, I'm trying to focus on those. I went through all the crap I had in my bank and found out I can get 20/20 offhands from quite a few collectors, so went and got those then bought the wands from the Vasburg Armory vendor guy, for my 2mesmers. I got a good staff of enchanting on my mm necro and using the reward from prophecies end quests on my RoJ for the 60hp on it, so just need a few more, but yeah should be good enough. I was just wondering if there was an incentive to staves, but apparently it's just the fact they're less spec limited so you can switch them around between heroes, but stats wise unless you need Of Enchanting, it seems wand+oh is superior. Now still need to buy a few more (expensive) runes to round up all that and finish EotN, then I have weeks of vanquishes ahead of me, yay ^^.

Jul 10, 2011, 03:30 PM // 15:30	#9
Quaker Hell's Protector Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Canada Guild: Brothers Disgruntled	When putting together a weapon set, there's always compromises to be made. If, for example, you use a 40/40 wand/focus set, you would be giving up the extra energy, health, etc., you could get with other mods. Whether or not to use a 40/40 set depends upon a few factors. As has already been said, some heroes need extra energy or health more than they need faster casting times. For example, a Mesmer hero already has the Fast Casting attribute, so giving it an extra 40% chance of casting faster is not as important as having enough energy. Also, decreasing the recharge time of spells, depends upon the normal recharge time of the equipped skills. (Are they already fast enough?) Another consideration, especially for heroes, is that a 40/40 set can lead to the Hero running out of energy by casting too many skills too quickly. On the other hand, something like a Curses Necro can really benefit from a 40/40 set. Energy is not so much of a problem with them, but the long casting and recharge times benefit from a 40/40 set (or a 40/20 staff). As with human players, what weapon to use and what mods to put on them varies depending upon many factors such as the Skills used, the energy requirements, the casting and recharge time of the Skills, etc. There is no one weapon set that is "best" for all occasions.

Jul 10, 2011, 03:35 PM // 15:35	#10
Kwith Academy Page Join Date: May 2006 Location: Canada Guild: Gaming Continuum Profession: W/	I just give all my caster heroes an hourglass staff from the GWEN pre-release bonus pack. I'm too lazy to go around and find the best 40/40 set for each hero. you get 15 energy, HSR 20, HCT 10, 45HP while enchanted and an extra 20% damage. That is good enough for me. So far I have had no issues with them.